To the scum who say our troops are routinely murdering civilians

"Daniel and Maureen Murphy always knew that their son, U.S. Navy Lt. Michael Murphy, was the kind of man who would give his own life to save the lives of others. He demonstrated that in June of 2005 in the Hindu Kush mountains of Afghanistan, when he and his team of three other Navy SEALs were on the trail of Taliban insurgents. Two goat herders chanced upon the group, and Murphy, 29, had two choices: He could order the two civilians killed in violation of everything he had been taught and believed in, or he could let them go, knowing they could alert local Taliban fighters of the presence of the SEAL team, putting their lives in jeopardy.  Murphy let them go, because to kill them was to commit murder.  In a short time, scores of Taliban fighters surrounded the patrol. The team needed help — fast — and Murphy, already wounded once, stepped out into the open to use his satellite phone to call for help. He took two rounds to the back, and dropped down on a rock,” said Murphy’s best friend, Petty Officer Marcus Luttrell, who would write a book — “Lone Survivor: The Eyewitness Account of Operation Redwing and the Lost Heroes of SEAL Team 10” — about the incident. “He sat back up, picked the phone back up and started talking again.” Murphy died that day along with the other two members of the team and 16 other servicemen in a helicopter that was sent to rescue them. Wounded, Luttrell crawled seven miles to a village, where sympathetic Afghanis tended his wounds and hid him from the Taliban.

Michael Murphy’s team members — Matthew Axelson, 25, and Danny Dietz, 31, who were both killed, and Luttrell, 32 — have each been awarded the Navy Cross, second only to the Medal of Honor. Only Luttrell survived.  Michael’s family will be presented with Michael’s Medal of Honor next week.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21340490/

Wow.  hell of a position to be put in.

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36 Responses to To the scum who say our troops are routinely murdering civilians

  1. existentialist says:

    I don’t want to sound like a dick, but a single act of heroism does not undo the acts of those who have, in fact, murdered innocent civilians. Obviously I cannot speak as to the prevalence of these acts; however, during a war they can and do occur. Why else would we have “collateral damage?”

    I would also argue that calling attention to the point that these things have happened in Iraq does not make you scum. In fact, I find it’s a necessity to remind us all of the high cost of war in terms of human suffering. Also, calling attention to the brave and selfless acts of our servicemen and servicewomen (also necessary), does not make one any more of a patriot than those who focus on the tragedies. I know you didn’t say it explicitly; however, it is implied in the title of this thread.

    Please don’t misconstrue this post to make me out to be an anti-American troop hater. I, like many liberals in this country, am far from it. Our military forces are victims of circumstance, subject to the whimsy of a hegemonic charlatan; however, as a volunteer corps, they should have had an idea of these possibilities when they signed on the dotted line. In a phrase, I am sympathetic, but I have no pity for them. I pity those who didn’t choose this life for themselves, the civilians who became bullet fodder over an idea of all things.

  2. neo-con fucktard says:

    Nuh uh, Exy. You’re a liberal TROOP HATER because I *want* you to be one. I don’t care that you say otherwise. I believe that you are, therefore you ARE.

    Just like I believe Jesus was white.

  3. Avatar of billybones billybones says:

    exy…i have no problem if, after being convicted of doing things wrong, the culprits are reffered to as murderer, torturers etc. However, i object to the fact that we have politicians and media who jump all over themselves to point their finger and say “murderers” but rarely if ever utter a word of apology to the servicemen and women (and their families) that they so readily smeared, when those individuals are exonerated in court. As far as civilian casualties…truth be told, compared to other wars we have in the current war, literally handcuffed our soldiers and put them in additional harms way to avoid so called collateral damage. I don’t take you for an anti-american or a troop hater. the greatest danger to the freedom we enjoy in this country is the attempts by the extremes on either side to silence those they disagree with. A vocal, legal opposition would seem to be a true sign that a democracy is indeed working.

  4. remrafdn says:

    I wonder what we would have done in that situation. Damn glad I wasn’t.

  5. andy g-outing a rotarian says:

    –nice try grootch..the punctuation gave you away..neo-con fucktard a close second..
    Exy: I have no comment. I think young Lt Murphy made a hell of a mistake and compromised his team and himself. In war shit happens, I member of a team survived 3 died instead of two. In war, compassion will get you killed. The idea is to survive and kill your adversary. He let his adversary go, and it cost his team. Heroic engagement that eventually cost another 18 elite soldiers their lives when their chopper crashed enroute to provide support for the team. The SEAL team member forgot the fundamental rule of engagements in indian country for all special warfare types…they are all hostile, you have no friends..nobody gets out alive but us. Sorry. Give the kid a Navy Cross.

  6. existentialist says:

    Andy,

    I do have to somewhat agree with your sentiments; however, as a young man who has never been on the battlefield (and never intends to be), I cannot speak for someone who has experienced war first hand. After the recent attacks on Benazir Bhutto, I’m even more convinced that these fundamentalists need to go the way of the dinosaur; however, we have to consider what is the appropriate method by which to do this.

    1) Do we go in, guns a’blazin’, with the hopes that we will be greeted as liberators?

    2) Do we attempt to engage other nations in a diplomatic effort to build a stable (secular) democracy?

    3) Do we push for education reform that disallows the teaching of any religion as fact (much like Sweden)?

    4) Do we stick our heads in the sand and hope the problem goes away?

    5) Do we use a combination of the previous strategies?

    I don’t have the answer, but I’m interested to know what you all think.

  7. remrafdn says:

    Cartoonist Ted Rall’s cartoon of 5/03/04 got his ass bounced off NBCNews.com. He slandered Pat Tillman and it cost him his sinecure. I remember another of his cartoons. It was a coffin with those goddam ribbons like Dad, Husband, ad nauseum the undertakers put on caskets. In the cartoon the ribbon said “Sucker”. I thought that was below the belt. I have tried to find that cartoon on the net without success so far but it exists.

  8. Grootch says:

    I’m all for the Swedish approach. It’s time these silly old ways were exposed and weighed against the historical record. Ignorant people will always continue to have a “personal” hope that there is something greater, but without organization and the influence of sociological dangers (mobs, riots, etc) their ability to commit atrocities while deluded by a feeling of “righteousness” is thus limited.

    Actually, Cuba has the right approach: You can be whatever religion you wish, you just can’t congregate. Since religion is a personal thing, it just makes sense from the standpoint of security. Wouldn’t you agree, grandpa? You who supports the patriot act and the elimiation of freedom for protection?

  9. andy g says:

    grootch: i find your comments unsettling as you support the greatest threat to individual freedom, the all encompassing benign state..as promoted and pushed by queen billary, as she and only she knows what is best for us ignorant fucks…the individual freedoms (use cell phone and internet to plan attacks on the great satan..)that could be compromised under the auspices of the patriot act are small in comparison to what mey find its way onto the democrat platform. Can you imagine the backlash against our residents good and bad if another successful attack occurs…there aren’t enough police to protect our islamic residents..really. There are those who will return the favor, generally against innocents. I would favor anything that gets the vile out.
    As a free society, our greatest danger is our greatest gift to our people. Liberty. Things are very different these days. The blackberry I am one with was buck rogeresque in the mid seventies. The bad guys have access to shit, we could only dream of, and our guys have the wherewithal to find them out or hunt them down, more power to them.

    Exy: I will try to go line by line…
    1)Only when we have been attacked, and how we are viewed doesn’t matter. They hate us anyway, and have no desire to be liberated as sectarian differences apparently overrule our concept of liberty and justice for all. You cannot whip a modern concept on a society that rivals 9th or 10th century values.
    2) A secular democracy is anethema to islam as they have stated many times. They lean to and are basically a theocracy waiting to happen. I am virolently opposed to any theocracy based on what I have observed regarding human behavior with a theocratic slant.
    3) By barring the teaching of religion, it would make us a defacto athiest state, on those grounds no. I am a constitutionalist by nature.
    4) We will have a head in the sand policy in 2 years if current trends are any indicator, and be in a state of confusion, with a crashed stock market, and a quasi socialist state. Not to mention, under siege by our enemies due to their perception that we are cowards. Be patient, this will come soon enough.
    5) I don’t know if a “strategery” exists, we must have a mindset that any attack will be met by such a horrible response as to render it unthinkable to any self respecting islamofacist. There is no martyrdom if you disappear in a flash, with no opportunity to sacrifice yourself as a mujahadeen. Just do die like a pig. This is an enemy that has to realize that their goal of 1 world under islam cannot and will not exist. Our “Christian” mindset of turning the other fucking cheek has to go away as well. Maybe a few nasty attacks will straighten all the optimists and altruistic types that there will be no peace without surrender.I don’t plan on purchasing a rug nor do I care exacty where Mecca is. A final battle is needed. Either to cleanse the world of them or us. There is no middle ground as far as I can see. To let the islamists go unfettered is as stupid as letting a cobra roam free in your house. Eventually you will get bit…it is their nature.
    BTW: No soldier wants to fight, he is the last one who wants a war. Trained to fight them..yes, willing to fight them..absolutley, but wanting one..only the Generals. A soldier has to pay the price, either with his life or humanity. He will lose something. What we win or lose as a society is far different than what a soldier loses..even when we win.

  10. Grootchie says:

    “I find your comments unsettling as you support the greatest threat to individual freedom, the all encompassing benign state”

    What the fuck? Where did you get that from? All I ‘support’ is Cuba’s approach to limiting the violent capabilities of delusional idiots.

  11. remrafdn says:

    “She knows what is best for us ignorant fucks”. Exactly. That is what motivates all these elitist SOBs. They know better than us how we should live. Sometimes I think Harry Truman was the last working class president. Kerry in particular reminds me of a local man who married well. It is said he stuck in six inches and pulled out six quarter sections.

  12. Grootch says:

    Dear remrafdn:

    Please look at how many Americans are considered morbidly obese today as opposed to 20 years ago. Then, consider the cost on you, the taxpayer, and emotional cost and physical strain on the families in question and then let’s you and I have a debate on whether or not “elitest snobs” know what the fuck is best for you, and also the great Satan that is socialized healthcare.

    Because you clearly

  13. remrafdn says:

    Grootch: Apparently there is a dire need for facts about nutrition ,not bullshit like “organic’ or “free range”. When I think of vending machines selling pop and junk food in schools, I get pissed. When I hear “gastric bypass”, I get pissed. When I can’t zip a pair of khakis with a 36 inch waist, I get pissed. But when I see a picture of myself with a muffin top I start eating smarter. More fruit, more veggies, no more Symphony bars. I’ve got neighbors that haven’t seen their genitalia in years. We built a peniscope for one of them.

  14. andy g- says:

    Grootch: Sometimes people can’t see the forest because of all the damn trees..
    I support the Patriot Act insofar that it is one of the only tools to fight an enemy that is using our greatest strength as a society against us..and of all the rights in the constitution, the second is one that is so very important where this shit is concerned. If a certain control freak party decides to play funny with the constitution, it is protected by a militia, that will give any army in the world a serious fucking over. Cuba is a shining example of how to keep 50 year old cars productive..only. The education of the Cubans is commendable under Castro as well. They are better off.

  15. remrafdn says:

    Grootch: I omitted “natural”. My bad. You know,like in “Death is Nature’s way of telling you to slow down”.

  16. existentialist says:

    Andy,

    I don’t want to ban the teaching of religion…just the teaching of religion as FACT. Big difference.

  17. andy g says:

    Exy: In that case I agree, religion is private and should not be state mandated. It should be neither banned or required.

  18. existentialist says:

    Andy,

    I think a basic understanding of religion is vital to competitive survival in an increasingly globalized world. I have nothing against the discussion of various religious beliefs, but I do have a problem with it being taught as historical fact. Perhaps if our education system did a better job linking modern religion to its mythological origins, our children would become less credulous. Mark my words, humanity will never reach its full potential until it rids itself of the primitive superstition that is religion.

  19. andy g- says:

    …..until it sheds itself of the shackles that religious controls enacted by other men place upon it. The power of religion is misplaced in the hands of men who have their own adgenda. There is nothing wrong with having a sense of spirituality and faith.

  20. billy b back, sort of says:

    i dislike any country who feels the need to have a state religion. i dislike any school outside of private schools that teach religion as anything other than a philosophy. exy, while i disagree with your end statement re: the need to eradicate religion, but i do agree with pretty much everything else you are saying about the teching of religious beliefs in school. I think the acurate historical portrayal of religion and the role it has played in world events is an important thing to understand. Particularly for those of us who are “people of faith” Unfortunately, too many people of religious orientation are not willing to look at things in that light. While you blame religion itself, and I blame human behavior…the end result is the same. If we are not educated as to how people have been manipulated by people based on belief systems in the past, we are doomed to repeat those mistakes.

  21. existentialist says:

    “There is nothing wrong with having a sense of spirituality and faith.”

    I agree…if you keep it to yourself and don’t indoctrinate your children to blindly follow your faith.

    “While you blame religion itself, and I blame human behavior…”

    Religion itself motivates those behaviors; tell me anything else that allows grown men and women to claim to know the unknowable. What else has been used more to justify the dehumanization, death, destruction of enemies more than religion? I suggest you try to take up Christopher Hitchens’ challenge:

    Name a moral act done by a believer that could not have been done by a non-believer. Also, name an atrocious act that could only have been committed by a “person of faith.”

  22. andy g says:

    hate to put my guys on the spot…
    stalin would put a bullet in you for the good of the state…
    but a jihadist will behead your ass in the name of allah, due to your status as an infidel, yet can by fatwa kill a fellow muslim who he percieves as an apostate…
    that is the reason I have reservations on “religion” but not faith…I strive to take man and his ambitions out of the equation.

  23. existentialist says:

    If you remove man’s ambitions, then you’re left with absolutely nothing. Faith is a byproduct of the ignorance and insecurity of a species in its infancy. How else can you account for the childish fascination with eternal life…do you think that a species that was dominated by twentysomethings for the great majority of its existence would produce anything but?

    I still find it hard to imagine that anyone with even a remedial knowledge of the history of this planet and our species could even fathom a benevolent creator. Or do you look at a photo from the Hubble Telescope, contemplate the infinite vastness of the universe and still have the immeasurable arrogance to assume that this was all somehow created with you in mind?

  24. andy g: says:

    exy: What makes you think that I consider us the “end game” of this grand experiment?

  25. Avatar of billybones billybones says:

    Name a moral act done by a believer that could not have been done by a non-believer. Also, name an atrocious act that could only have been committed by a “person of faith.”

    The answer to this question is obvious..you as a non-believer are every bit as capable of doing moral acts as a person of “faith”. Your claimed motivation may well be different, but it is you actions that count to me. The same is true of atrocities. we all, regardless of our belief system, seem to be capable of the heights of selfless behavior and the depths of depravity. i could care less about the reasoning, only the action. If you believe in absolutely but treat those less fortunate than yourself with care and kindness, you are a better person than the religious person who talks about the worthless drunk.

  26. existentialist says:

    I wasn’t assuming that you consider our species that “end game,” I was just asking a question. Here’s another: if you consider the universe to be a “grand experiment,” then do you believe that we are an intended variable in the equation?

  27. existentialist says:

    Billy,

    So you’re telling me that a non-believer would find it fitting to mutilate the genitalia of a child? Just curious.

  28. andy g says:

    I believe we are a troublesome variable in the equation.

  29. existentialist says:

    Intended…or…unintended?

  30. andy g says:

    I am not that knowledgable, other wise I would be the “right reverend Andy G” of the church of really smart people who actually have the answer.
    Just another dumbass wondering in the wilderness, with a casual betting interest in the outcome.

  31. Avatar of billybones billybones says:

    exy…the medical establishment also practices genital mutilation of boys…with no religious reason needed. certainly under more sterile circumstances. if i recall, the binding of feet in china had nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with cultural perception of beauty.

  32. existentialist says:

    Billy,

    But where did the practice originate? Had the pious not felt that their invisible friend in the sky deemed it necessary to mutilate the foreskin, my suspicion is that the practice would not be conceivable to the modern mind. In fact, many medical establishments are no longer performing circumcisions, and if I am not mistaken, will only consider doing so at the request of the parents (and what would drive them to that decision…I wonder). Also, what about the circumcision of young girls in the Middle East? You didn’t mention the grotesquely primitive ritual of removing a clitoris and sewing the vagina shut except for a small opening for urination and menstruation…is that related to the “cultural perception of beauty?”

    Keep in mind that foot binding was banned in the early 1900s and is widely considered to be child abuse nowadays. Despite the fact that it was a “cultural” phenomena, as you described, people were able to realize what it truly was, a cruelly primitive and wholly unnecessary practice. Unlike traditions associated with religious dogma, cultural practices often times are corrected or done away with by future generations and progressive thinkers. Also consider that the majority of ritualistic body-altering practices are likely predominantly performed by indigenous tribes who are mired in the primitive superstition of our ancestors.

  33. Avatar of billybones billybones says:

    no exy, i am not attempting to make a claim as ludicrous as stating that most ritualistic body altering has not been done in the name of some religion or other. I was simply responding to your query as to whether a non-beliver would engage in such practices, and i pointed out two examples that were done for a reason other than religion. my point was merely that people do these thing without religion being the excuse.

  34. andy g says:

    Cervical cancer in women who are with uncircumcized males is far higher than with those who are with the mutilated.
    Apparently the smegma smugglers carry a higher risk of screwing up the womens cervix with bacteria & other unwanted stuff that they fail to clean properly. So there may be a medical benefit for “others” in the boys future…

  35. existentialist says:

    Excuse me, Andy, but that sounds like a hygiene issue, not a circumcision issue. Try not washing your dick for a month and see what nice surprise you give to the missus.

  36. andy g says:

    exy: I’m aware of the hygiene issues, i’m not saying, but I’m just sayin’…
    what ever it’s genesis, I’m glad to be “mutilated”, and damn glad it didn’t happen at 12 too.

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