Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad at Columbia

Since the in-forum threads seem to not have thought this worthy of discussion…unless I missed it yesterday…here it is.  Should Columbia University have invited Ahmadinejad (or ah’ma dinna jacket as he is reffered to on Garage Logic) to speak in light of his threats to Israel and the United States etc. ?  I have mixed feelings.  On one hand, it is important that people hear what nuts like him have to say.  On the other hand, it would seem that the Columbia University is, by inviting him, lending an air of legitimacy to the nutjob.

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49 Responses to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad at Columbia

  1. remrafdn says:

    It’s a mixed metaphor but if a butt light is shone on those assholes and they are exposed to scrutiny they will be hoist by their own petard.

  2. Grootch, ready to catch hell says:

    You know, I saw the interview and the tone of it sort of bothered me. You could tell the interviewer had White House talking points in hand, and was clearly on the offensive. However, Ahmadinejad danced around the questions like a belly dancer on crack, so it didn’t help his case much.

    Regardless he is a democratically elected president, and no elected official should be treated the way he was. I can see if he was a self-declared monarch or a dictator, but he is not.

    Ask tough questions, but do it in a respectful manner.

  3. existentialist says:

    I just couldn’t stop laughing when he said that there are no homosexuals in Iran. I mean, that’s some real crazy right there, and I couldn’t help but be entertained by the blatant ignorance.

  4. billy says:

    grootch, i bet that if they were to attempt to invite pres. bush, vp cheney, rummmy, or rice….the reaction would be much more disrespectful…in fact, i’d bet the students and faculty would threaten to strike. They let this nut who is responsible for executing gays, but the military recruiters aren’t allowed on campus (or the ROTC) due to the clinton era don’t ask don’t tell policy?

  5. andy g-still surprised by stupidity... says:

    I really don’t know what to make..overtly liberal campus threw their gay compatriots under the bus with the opening line of questioning with their appreciative yet nervous laughter..and it went down hill from there. I didn’t know that they had all their gays executed yet. He has learned the finer points of final solutions well. It was clearly a grand stand act for the Iranian public consumption and a desparate act by the far left wing to paint the Iranian regime in a humanist light. (See he is just like us…nehru jacket and everything) Goes to show you that we will make a rock star out of anyone. Some of the worlds best beasts have spoke at the UN, we should send that place to the Hague or something…I’m sure that his Holocaust revisionist mindset created some squeemishness on the part of the “unreformed” part of the liberal set. This may have a moderate splintering effect behind closed doors for the liberal wing of the Democrats. The guy is a bad Las Vegas lounge act as far as I am concerned. His mullah masters were keeping a close eye on him back home to stay on a slightly even keel so I look for nothing enlightening from his trap anyhow. I would have issues if his disingenuous ass was allowed anywhere near the WTC, but other than that..let him take in a yankees game and soak in the ambiance that only NYC can offer.
    As far as the talking points grootch, that guy was the president of Columbia and was backpedalling as fast as he could once the appearance was publicized and the backlash started. I don’t think dudya cared. Shit, Nicky K of the old soviet union took his shoe off and used it like a gavel in his infamous “we will bury you” speech at the very same podium long before you were born. So what is another douche bag at the dais. Like I said, the people who invited him looked worse than anyone once the goofball opened up his mouth and spewed his sick shit out. Like I am fond of sayin..”some times it is best to just shut up and be thought stupid, than open up your mouth and remove any doubt in peoples minds..”. The guy is a creep. BTW: He came not as a guest of this country, rather an invited speaker to a private organisation..so he no different than any other private citizen in this country. No better no worse. his group of goofs at Columbia have fucked with a number of speakers, so “I-just-did-a-john” can join the list of luminaries.

  6. Grootch, making love out of nothing at all says:

    Billy:

    So a scenerio you just created in your mind is justification to why representatives of the US, private or otherwise, could treat him poorly?

    Tell me… what else do you get from the land of make believe that enables your shitty behavior?

  7. Grootch, just can't fight this feeling anymore says:

    Andy G:

    So do you think that his comments on gays was a direct appeal to the conservatives in this country?

    Also, I didn’t mean columbia Univ’s president’s comments, I mean the interviewer’s comments regarding talking points.

    He’s definately an expert conservative politician. Rallying people around hatred, using rhetoric and Allah to spur it and justify it, etc. His Holocaust denial in particular; anyone who has done any research couldn’t possibly deny it happened (though I’ve read that some records the russians released in 1989 lessen the number of jews actually killed, but I whose to say that isn’t inaccurrate as well) unless you are ignorant bedouin peasants who think Jews are animals because your Cleric told you it was true.

  8. Linda says:

    Here’s an interesting comment -

    “This guy is the Dick Cheney of Iran. He wants greater power in Iran’s political system — but he doesn’t have it. In fact, unless we bomb Iran, he’s on the way to being a former President with little power. He has not achieved any serious consolidation of his position in the Iranian political arena…
    Ahmadinejad is failing in Iran. But we spend a lot of time fretting over his words and posture. We need to stop letting him define Iran’s character and ultimate direction. But Cheney and Ahmadinejad need each other – they push each other’s buttons. We need to move beyond both.”

    The rest is here: http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/002367.php

  9. billy says:

    no grootch, i’m just pointing out that we seem to have devolved into a society where blatant disrespect of others in not only acceptable, it is laudable. Who is being disrespected generally defines who is offended and who isn’t. I hear very few if anyone saying we should return to civility in our discourse. Given your your proclivity for teeing off on fundies and even religion in general, your outrage is interesting in this regard.

  10. Grootch, uh.... says:

    No you aren’t. Your post above was basically “oh yeah? well it it had been OUR politians they would have probably been treated worse, so NANNER NANNER NANNER!”

    And then you say “Who is being disrespected generally defines who is offended and who isn’t.”

    Um.. yeah. The… one… being… disrespected… is usually the .. you know… offended one.

    And in any case whatsoever, how is that an excuse for our own actions?

    I can’t believe I’m having this conversation with a grown man.

  11. existentialist, gonna keep on lovin' you says:

    Billy,

    Though I agree that we approach social discourse with some level of civility, I see no guarantee in the Constitution of the right to not be offended by the words of others. In fact, in order to address complex issues, we need to be willing to speak the truth, no matter who it offends. My brand of vitriol that is geared toward religion is a prime example. It is not the attempt of provocation for the sake of being provokative, but rather a combination of things. It is the frustration over the blatant disregard for truth that religion breeds, and also the need to incite some passion into the debate.

    Let’s also remember, Billy, that respect must be earned, and if one really has not earned it, can we really truly be “disrespectful?” In my opinion, providing a critical counterpoint to an argument is paramount, not the reaction of my opponent. In fact, I quite enjoy offending people because, on a psychological level, I know my words have affected them and hit a nerve, giving me the upper hand. While I remain calm, cool, and collected, they become emotional and reactionary. After all, words are only as powerful as the personal interpretation of them by the audience. Based on what I’ve seen here, I think you might agree (at least a little bit).

  12. Linda says:

    To me, it comes down to this – when did we get such a case of the yips when it comes to free speech? I think inviting him to speak provided the perfect opportunity for us to see him as he is, not the next super-bogeyman Bush/Cheney/Lieberman are trying to portray him as. The university president cut him into little bits, he had to backtrack from some of his statements about Israel (because they aren’t even flying in his own country), most of his answers were a religio-politico-ranting word salad, and the audience howled in laughter when he tried to say there were no gays in Iran. I think America is finally showing its confidence again when it can listen to a guy like this and laugh in all the right places, rather than cowering in fear. As with Bin Laden, the more we lift these guys up as all-powerful bogeymen (instead of joining potential Middle Eastern allies in alienating and diminishing them) the more powerful we make them. Also, he’s a politician facing a difficult reelection – of course he’s on a propaganda tour. Let’s not help his campaign by appearing afraid of him.

  13. Avatar of billybones billybones says:

    Exy…i agree with what you say. My point is that there are too many people for whom it is alright to simply shout mindless slogans because their favorite preacher/activist/professor/drinking buddy is saying the same thing. Grootch, please stop painting me with someone else’s brush…bush/cheney are not my guys…my problem is, looking at the political horizon…i see no leaders. i’m not sure the interview you are referring to, my point had to do with his reception at the university, and their much touted credo of bringing people in “because we have to learn to talk to them”. If it was president bush…the school staff would have probably revolted. too many so called intelligent people are too unwilling to look beyond their personal biases and are too quick to listen to whichever talking head who seems to agree with them. If people brought the same level of intellectual examination upon the politicians they support as they purport to with the ones they hate we would be a lot better off. sorry about the run on sentence. Using exy’s statement…since ahmadinejad has done nothing to earn our respect…why do we owe him any?

  14. Andy G-life is the pits when you pick cherries.. says:

    Grootch: I believe his comment on gays was just him being him. His earlier comments on the jewish question is what he believes as an idealogue. Much in the same manner that the Iranians routed Carter and helped get Reagan elected, they now feel that they and their allies have helped sway American public opinion yet again only this time tripping up Republicans and helping Democrats.
    He understands his position as nehru jacket wearing public face of the cadre of religious leaders (the ayatollah confederacy). Remember that democracy is the enemy of Islam..their own words..it is a facade. Their actions are calculated to play well to their target audience. Not the west.
    In the grand scheme of things you don’t see the passionate hatred from the left in this country, then you too are blinded by ideology…it doesn’t become you.
    Linda: Free speech is fine, both ways. I agree, we all support free speech until we don’t agree with the message. The constitution is funny that way. I think if you believe in it, it forces you to listen to and if nothing else tolerate the right of others to (god forbid..!)have a seriously different viewpoint than you. Bin Laden on the other hand, is a whole different animal. As is the Islamic Brotherhood. Nothing like anything we have ever seen. They are not bogeymen, they are avowed Islamist who have sworn to do their best to destroy us. All of western civilization must go according to their stated goals from 1928. They are not new. There is not a nationalistic bent to their goal, it is larger. As large and all encompassing as Islam itself. If just 40% of the 1B muslims worldwide buy into the message of hate and the obligation of good muslims to seek world domination on a global scale as their goal..we have a potential base of 400M enemies who hear this crap 5 times a day. They do not function in a secular world, they fear it.
    Boys: Remember that I am the guy who coined the term “American Taliban” so your quasi anti religious rhetoric gets very little rise from this secular humorist. According to grootch, I’m a cherry picker…but then aren’t we all? If we are not, then we are a zealot..just as bad as those we abhor.

  15. Grootch, lets try that again, but with content this time says:

    “There is not a nationalistic bent to their goal, it is larger. As large and all encompassing as Islam itself.”

    You really need to substantiate this claim with actual facts and figures here, man. Otherwise, I can simply claim fundie christian Fred Phelps groups are the same. Or the Amish. Or the Mennonites. Or the Mormons. Or the 7th Day Adventists.

  16. Avatar of billybones billybones says:

    sorta like you padded your list of republican politicians engaged in illegal behavior? you ask facts and figures out of others but remain in the realm of the vague yourself, grootch.

  17. andy g-helping a rotarian out says:

    grootch: Unlike you, I cannot cut and paste stuff like you can..so like I told you before start with the brotherhood and dig a little. I could give two shits about Hamas and Al Fatah..pikers, stylistic quasi nationalists who kill more of their own folks than their “enemy” does..kind of like american gangbangers but without butt thumping music videos and boom cars..their cars actually fuckin explode..well I guess that would be the ultimate boom car wouldn’t it…al-zawahiri helped kill Sadat, who made peace to save another generation of egyptian soldiers from dieing to promote the caliphate shit, but only egyptians were served up to the israeli meatgrinder. Bin-Laden is his militaristic alter ego..tragically hip figure..islamist style..

  18. Grootch, nobody here... it's just you and me... says:

    Andy G:

    I hate to break it to you sir, but almost all research you do is actually ‘research’ someone else has done and substantiated by others, unless you are a first hand witness. That said, I *did* cite my source, and also admitted there were double and triple posts, though by and large they were unique.

    But you know… continue to attack methods instead of facts.

    Now then, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. I listed a whole lotta conservative sex offenders (verified), and 18 “current” politicians either balls-deep in scandal or in litigation.

    Please show me the courtesy of citing at least a few factual sources to back up your claims, instead of simply punting from the 10 yard line.

  19. Andy G: says:

    Spent 4 of my 6 years in SWS preparing to fight those suckers..in the dark side you study your opponent and learn all you can about them. Our Israeli & Jordanian advisors identified those extremists in 72 & 73 as the real future problem. That is why I and a few of my cohorts were so stunned by the absolute ignorance of our response to 9/11. We were wondering what took them so long…My paper had an operation entailing 50 4 man teams, oblivious to the others. It had coordinated attacks on airliners taking off, timed charges on unprotected commo towers, and deadly substance placed in or at water supply areas strictly for effect. I felt I could get my teams out easily in the immediate disorder that would result..they felt I was a sick bastard..I look like mother Theresa compared to these guys.
    We had nastier guys than me painting these scenarios..from just regular guys..we will continue to disagree on this..I will not throw the lack of relevent life experience card at you nor the no military shit..that don’t matter much. If you want proof..go catch one the bastards and interrogate his ass unless extreme questioning is off the table in your world. We just killed the badguys in the day..these kids now got to watch their ass for CNN. The objective in war is to find your enemy and eliminate him..with extreme prejudice. My opinion is validated every single fucking day. Just sort through the shit and find the signs of the brotherhood and their minions at work. The factual sources are there in their actions and in their dogma. They have shown the ability to plan and launch very nifty operations and they will only get better and their opportunities to launch an attack will increase tenfold in another 1.5 years as the altuistic twits push us into the valley of the shadow of death..only they won’t lead as their systemic cowardice prevents that. The hopeless omptimist in me hopes that you are right and I am wrong for my kids sake, but the pragmatic realist and soldier in me tells me I am right. A good soldier goes for the kill when he senses the opportunity, and these fucks are good soldiers..add to that the islamic blues brothers twist (on a fucking mission from god..)and my misguided rotarian pal, we got a big assed problem on our hands and it ain’t Rosie O’Donnell. My opinions are forged in blood and pain, the hard way. I wouldn’t wish that shit on even you. We approach from completely different points of reference Grootch. I wish I could even think way again. As far as politicians are concerned…forget it. I don’t care. When was the last time they presented someone you’d like to have as a neighbor or better yet share a foxhole with? I as a matter of principle refuse to google to debate opinions. All research is shaded by the objectivity of the researcher as well. Hell, you can even find Bin-Laden the humanist references to show his ass in a positive light. Go ahead. Listen to what the Imans aligned with the brotherhood expouse in the Mosques. It is their duty. Jews, Christians, Hindus, athiests, animists,…all are destined for subjugation or death. That is the real message. Here is a good test, even for a “moderate” muslim. How many would let their daughter date/marry a jew or christian..and women don’t have property rights..I don’t dislike them, I understand their double standard disdain for us. There are considerable cultural issues at play here, some are very complex. There is very little room for compromise on issues like this though on little things, what makes you think the big picture is different.

  20. andy g-doing something he depises in others for the sake of time.. says:

    Grootch: I never thought I would see the day I did this shit…but, against all my rules of intellectual engagement..
    Google (gagggggh!) Caliphate
    check 3 quick articles
    1)What do terrorists want (http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2798
    check additional links on this article,good background of understanding the difference between garden variety terrorist and a dedicated islamist
    2)Clash of civilisations..short read
    3)caliphate: 1 nation under islam with 1.5B muslims

    these are kind of starter articles but get into the meat and potatoes of the ideology, and to an idealouge such as your self it should be a quick pick. The caliphate types + brotherhood are a patient lot and understand us and our weaknesses better than we apparently understanding them. The message is clear on their intent. They are dedicated to the eradication of western civilization and the first step is the caliphate. I have repeatedly urged you to research these guys in our dialouges about this stuff. Most of this is in their own words..so no subjective conspiritorial editorialism at play. There is a shitload more..notice that they merely view the Palistinians as a tool to motivate only…nice guys.

  21. Avatar of billybones billybones says:

    i go back to my question…grootch…since you felt he should be treated respectfully, what has he done to earn anyones respect?

  22. andy g-come on grootch its past my bedtime.. says:

    <ahemmmmm> sound of throat clearing…

  23. andy g-looking at my watch & concerned for my rotarian buddy who is never late.... says:

    Grootch: Are you okay? You out there? This isn’t funny anymore, where are you?? Stop kidding around….
    (scene from a bad B movie for those who don’t get the scenario)
    Fade to black..

    Next time it will be the judge from Caddyshack…you know his famous line..and its not…”oh billy….” either.

  24. Bryan K says:

    Well…he’s a man who was elected in a nation that has a solid and legitimate reason to be an enemy to the United States. I think we staged a coup against the last democratically elected president of Iran.

  25. Grootch, too much time on my hands says:

    I’m extremely busy at work. Every Technical Account Manager at Microsoft is breathing down my goddamn neck.

    I’ll be back later to hand you your asses, but the gist of my argument would be that we’ve burned enough of our good will and repoire with the world, and by treating world leaders like shit simply fans the flames.

    We are the US of A. Let’s start fucking acting like it.

  26. andy g says:

    sounds like grootch doesn’t have any time…well idle hands are the devils playground. carry on trooper.

  27. andy g says:

    bryan k…these are the same dolts that posted pictures of condellisa rice as a monkey w/tits..fuck em. So what he was elected to a figure head position..kind of like the queen of england..the mullahs run the show there and everybody knows it. he is the best lip sinc artist since nilli vanilli or what ever they were called. puppet on stick. he verbalizes shit from this cloaked masters..and some of the hostages have id’d him as one of their captors. As far a Mossadeh is concerned, it was one of those cold war deals…they did it..we did it..collateral damage in the grand scheme of things. One should ask the entire iranian population how things are now, while the thought police aren’t present. It is totaltarian state period. Similar to North Korea. None of those people fare well under a democracy anyway, they would just kill each other for being different, though they are less tribal and more homogeneous than their iraqi neighbors. Being predominately shia doesn’t hurt either, little of the nasty inter-islam infighting over a 1200 year old fight for identidy.

  28. Grootch, real quick like says:

    “these are the same dolts that posted pictures of condellisa rice as a monkey w/tits..fuck em.”

    What about the dolts who put Max Cleland in the same ad as Osama Bin Laden and Saddam hussein? Who are the bigger animals here?

  29. andy g-supporter of old max says:

    those asswipes I have addressed already, gutless twits. Max paid his price in full. The other fact is that those asswipes are not beheading folks for dramatic effect and to encourage others to join the army of god-islam style. Huge difference. It is one thing to do or post artwork detrimental to someone (sounnnnnnd familiar???)you disagree with. Its another to use car bombs.

  30. Avatar of billybones billybones says:

    the bastards who did that to max cleland are assholes of the first order.

  31. Bryan K says:

    Sorry, but I can’t fathom a single reason why we would have the right to go into a sovereign nation and depose a democratically elected leader. Cold War my ass, we made a decision in 1953, and we are reaping the consequences of that today. The Cold War was nothing but 45 years of foreign policy blunders that still continue to this day, almost 20 years after the Cold War ended. We imposed 25 years of an extremely brutal regime under the Shah in exchange for the extremely popular leader that we deposed. If I was a democratically elected leader of Iran right now, I’d be deathly afraid of the United States’ influence right now. I would do everything in my power to smear the name of the United States. I’m very afraid of Iran, Andy. They have propaganda on their side, and it’s our own damn fault.

    Sorry, but Iran is an enemy we created. Our own actions over the past 60 years have done nothing but strengthen the Islamic Brotherhood. The invasion of Iraq may well have been the final blow to our credibility.

  32. Avatar of billybones billybones says:

    the thing that frightens me is that ah’madinnajacket is basically a freaking mouthpiece…he doesn’t run the country, if i recall right, the Ayatollah Khameni is the religious leader, and he’s the dude with the real power. and we don’t hear many speaches by him…so where does he stand on all this?

  33. Grootch says:

    The big thing that frightens me is that his own fucking people are about to depose him, so instead of letting attrition do its thing we start shooting spitwads.

    But then again, I’m not Dubya and I don’t have an imaginary sky fairy friend, so maybe I’m just not in the loop.

  34. Avatar of billybones billybones says:

    actually he isn’t up for re-election until 1009, and i sort of doubt that the people are going to be out in the streets there much without the grand ayatollah’s permission. but your point is made and taken. but i have a question…according to an earlier statement you said he should be treated with respect because he is the duly elected president of another country. Is it your contention that elected leaders of countries should be treated with respect when they talk to the press, speak at college campuses etc. ?

  35. existentialist says:

    I say we keep fanning the flames…I want to see if we can bring about the Apocalypse. I mean, then we’d find out if this Jesus character is truly legit. Plus, it would be pretty wicked to see a bearded Nazarene carpenter swoop down from the sky on a flaming horse. I hope he doesn’t forget to wear his tuxedo t-shirt (“I’m formal…but I’m here to party”).

  36. Grootch, Everything you've ever wanted and more! says:

    Billy:

    What I said was “ask tough questions, but do it in a respectful manner.” And yes, I contend that we as Americans should conduct ourselves with a bit of class when it comes to foreign relations.

    Let’s look at a comparison quickly:

    1) Ahmadinejad claims the holocaust was a lie

    2) Dubya claims to talk to a deceased jewish carpenter and be a christian, yet is responsible for how many deaths total?

    Do you think its possible that both men are just posturing to garner support from religious groups?

    My point is that regardless it isn’t a reason why we shouldn’t conduct ourselves in an appropriate manner.

  37. andy g- says:

    I don’t think we have much to worry about, France is rattling the saber about iran….god help us all…

  38. billy be going into shock says:

    grootch, i can’t think of anything that you just said that i can disagree with you about…
    andy…the french, what the fuck are they gonna do, throw pastries at iran? anyone disagree that the french are still pissed about the riots a year ago?

  39. Grootch, wanton destruction says:

    Well, crepe’s are both delicious and deadly… it’s the damn carbs that kill you.

  40. Avatar of billybones billybones says:

    well hell, lets crepe the creep.

  41. andy g says:

    Billy B: I have a fine french carver..maybe they plan to truss the iranians first…

  42. Avatar of billybones billybones says:

    someone should have just shot him and that chavez dude.

  43. billy b annoyed says:

    let me guess, moron, you wear t-shirts saying “kill them all, let god sort them out” and various other profound statements…right?

  44. remrafdn says:

    Whem we picked rocks on the farm you’d find the damnedest critters. When you turned a rock over and the light hit those suckers they scurried for cover. Pronto. Same thing with these assholes. Shine the light on them.

  45. andy g says:

    go easy Billy, that was my teams motto..profound my ass, plain and simple fucking truth..way before politically correct shit we had a patch made and everything. You ever wonder why a ranger deck has only 1 card?…the ace of spades?…it is your calling card, so the bad guy knows who did it. Hopefully, who to come looking for..

  46. Avatar of billybones billybones says:

    sorry andy, no disrespect meant to those who served under that motto…too many of these shitheads read soldier of fortune magazine, have delusions of being a kick ass fighting man run around the woods playing fucking rambo, and adopt slogans they know nothing about, That wasn’t a slam on SOF by the way, just a certain segment of the morons who buy it and read it…you know, the fucknuts with the sheets or the nazi shit who think the un is coming in black helecopters to take their asses away.

  47. andy g says:

    they are poontang with armament. few are worth a shit but like to dress up like soldiers, but lack the guts and discipline to actually soldier for a living.we referred to them as “shirley temples commandoes”, special training company-where they sent the fuckups to be sent home to mom and dad when they couldn’t handle the stress of training, or the discipline required to soldier. this was back in the day when they kicked your ass with impunity.guys like these sheet heads are punks, just like the driveby street trash who can’t shoot straight, and run when someone (god forbid) shoots back. punks know no color. It’s when they try act all militaristic that I get insulted.
    Besides, the brass hated shit like that patch. A lot of LRRP, HK, RCT, & SF SOG teams had shit like that. Combat fashion.

  48. remrafdn says:

    Tom Toles’ Washington Post cartoon shown on CBSNews.com today says it all.

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